Another Day Another Drama

Well, after not blogging for months, returning to an “occasionally log in” status, and promising that I wouldn’t be blogging for months to come, my foray into Eve Media was just so perfectly timed that I can’t resist piping up. The occasion of course is the Fountain War book that I just praised a couple of days ago. Since praising it, Sion Kumitomo has written a dramatic little missive to the Eve community and then Kirith Kodachi, Gevlon Goblin, and my buddy Seraph IX Basarab have offered hard counters to Eve’s dastardly diplomat. Now this situation is just too much fun to keep quiet about, so I am taking pen to paper. I mean you all give a shit about what Jan Irvam has to say, right? (Please say, “yes!” so I don’t get triggered 😰)

So my little post is going to actually be a defense of what Sion is on about. Not because I’m in league with the little bees or anything, but because I think there’s a certain lack of awareness that makes the community look bad. I myself used to be pretty Grr Goon on account of all the ganking and recruitment scams, the allegiance to the SA forums, and the typical reasons. Lately, though, when they rebranded to the Imperium and actually made their cocksuckerness a matter of lore, I got a bit more neutral. KarmaFleet, while it pissed me off at the time as a member of the pre-implosion Brave Collective, also helped my opinion some in the long run, so at this time the Grr Goon in me is more a matter of Jan being an Amarr loyalist who has no love for Max Singularity than a legitimate feeling that the Goons are bad for the game. If the Goons really do become bad for the game, I’ll be the first to lock lips with Gevlon and pick up my torch and pitchfork, but this book just ain’t the occasion for that.

Now Seraph’s (not Kirith’s) counters to Sion are actually pretty sound for the most part, and what he says should be considered, so I am not actually out to contradict him. Edwards, as an artist, does have to read the bad reviews. It’s part of making art. Some like you, some don’t. But in a number of areas I’ve come to the conclusion that the culture of the player base can be toxic for Eve. So I would like to highlight a few things pertaining to the book and Sion’s post from a different corner than the reaction to Sion elsewhere.

There are a couple of things to have in mind before even starting on the issue of the current media drama. First, we don’t know what the book will be about beyond the Fountain War. The Goons are owning their eternal asshattedness, and they may actually commission Jeff to portray them as the bad guys in this book. Unfortunately, much of the criticism of the book as Goon propaganda or whatever just isn’t going to be known until it comes out. When it comes out, if it’s a shameless plug, we can say so and make sure nothing is ever attempted again. We can ensure their work is perpetually derided. It could, though, be pretty cool. I might even get the tickle of seeing Jan Irvam as a bad guy in the book. Which brings me to point two. The book actually does represent a new approach to generating Eve lore. CCP has not with any book attempted to bring player actions into the mythology. They’ve done a bit of toying with player lore via the Scope, but that’s pretty much it. This attempt, if it works, could be pretty cool. Finally, there are all the financial accusations. I really can’t comprehend these. CCP Fozzie makes money off generating Eve content. Do we crucify him? Now Mittens’ wife needs to eat too. He has chosen to make Eve a career. I personally would have him making money providing content via Eve lore before having him put bread on his family’s table as a PLEX reseller. It’s a capitalist world. Do we shit on someone for choosing to be a nurse because they will get paid for it? No, we congratulate them for choosing a healing profession. If we get something for giving Mittens our money, where is the harm?

So with these things in mind I’ll dig in a bit to the actual situation.  At the outset, though, if you back up from the trees and look at the forest, Sion’s moralistic condemnation is quite obviously personally motivated. He does devote a lot of attention to the point of not taking out a hatred of the Goons on Jeff. But overall Sion is defending Jeff, not really the Goons, and really, not even the book. He’s actually apologizing to Jeff on behalf of the Eve community by crapping on the Eve community. This guy likely trades e-mails with Jeff. He may well have received from Jeff “what’s with all the hate?” and felt really bad and embarrassed. His lack of diplomatic obfuscation and high-handed condemnation are actually a statement that he cares more about what Jeff thinks than what we think.

Concerning the reactions, well, Gevlon’s were hilarious as usual while being insightful, but really don’t warrant significant comment here. Kirith’s were quite disappointing, really. He actually takes the bait and devotes a lot of attention to how criticism is warranted because Goons really are total fucks. However, this is diving straight into the hole that Sion dug for him. Sion’s whole point was, “hate the Goons all you want, just take it easy on Jeff please.” Kirith’s, “but the Goons are so bad, so we should hate” just accomplishes nothing beyond “ra ra ra how dare Sion be pissed!”

Now on to the community. I’ve said before that Eve cynicism actually prevents the game from getting better. Player retention remains low because after every effort CCP takes to improve the NPE, the newbro can’t help but run into you guys. Also, the stagnant veteran attitude has rotted to the point of resembling a Metallica fan who hates everything the band did since Master of Puppets but still goes to concerts anyway for some damned reason. Anymore I hear nothing but cries to CCP that “I hate your damned blob, but if you kill it I’ll unsub my 30 accounts.” When new players come to the game, they see that shit. When investors look at CCP, they see that shit. Whatever anybody does for the damned game is met with cynicism. In this case it’s just a blathering admixture of grrgoonsjeffedwardssucks. Like we can’t even differentiate between shitting on a writer and commenting on Goon negatives. What measure THC bludgeoned intelligence we have is completely drowned in a sea of shit from our inner asshole, so it all comes out like meaningless garbage. Garbage that stinks, looks bad, and just isn’t cool to Jeff Edwards.

Now on to the peripheral matters of the Cloud Ring Campaign and the Viceroyalty issue. Frankly, while I retain my Grr Goon t-shirt, if you want to talk about a cosmic cancerous turd floating through New Eden, you need to read up on the PanFam. These guys have people convinced that they are elite by winding up for a pitch when the umpire calls “play Barve!” At least NC. gave us the courtesy of obviously sucking. For some reason, people still believe Pandemic Legion when they say they didn’t want that sov anyway. I hope they get a kick out of not docking up their Titans when they can’t hang on to an XL Citadel (CCPLEEZ get rid of supercap logoffski! You’re our only hope!). So the Imps are doing us a favor by getting rid of the Pandemic Family Farce that they can stand up and fight when there is an enemy. Same goes for the Viceroyalty thing. The galactic south is just a tragedy. CCP makes it easier than ever for people to take space and everything just collapses. The Viceroyalty thing is another way of saying, “if you’re scared, say you’re scared!” Basically, the Imps need to create content just like everybody else. Gevlon reminds us every day about how they sit in Deklein and rat. So, if there’s any truth to what’s been put out, it looks like the Goons are forcing content by being the same assholes they’ve been for decades, and consistently with their Nazi role-play motif. Nothing more. And the result will be content, or the illusion of the galactic south will be shattered.

Anyway, I’ve said my peace. Seraph, your article was pretty good in stating that our community is the final arbiter of what’s been said and anti-Goon reaction is to be expected. On the other hand, though, it’s easy to see where Sion is coming from. He’s protecting Jeff, as he really should. The reactions to the kickstarter have just been dumbassed, and the reaction to Sion has been predictable and pretty much proved his point. Trying to tie Cloud Ring and the Viceroyalty thing to the issue with Jeff actually isn’t fruitful, even though the relationship is very close on the surface. They’re just playing along, getting press for being dicks like always, and generating content.

Ultimately I’ve just wanted to say a few things. Eve players, don’t be dumb cynical shitheads. It’s not cool. It doesn’t get anybody anywhere. Be smart, clever shitheads instead. I’ll give you a hint. Don’t shit on Jeff Edwards. All else is fair play. Finally, if you want to see a book on the Fountain War, support the kickstarter. If you don’t want the book, don’t support the kickstarter. In advance of the book, comment on the possibilities. Try and influence it. Don’t just explode into an autistic outburst with no meaning. When it comes out, go to town about how much you love it or hate it. Should be simple stuff, really.

10 thoughts on “Another Day Another Drama

  1. My point in my post was not “but the Goons are so bad, so we should hate”, but rather that Goons spent ten years fostering the hate so its very hypocritical of Sion to act offended at it now, while still posturing as the (in game) bully.

    If you give a listen to the podcast that Funkybacon recorded with a roundtable including Rixx Javix, you’ll hear that my view is widely shared.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I agree with some of what you said, but I don’t think player retention is bad because of the community. The new player experience is pretty bad at the moment, though. There’s no good tutorial, the opportunities system is really confusing and generally not helpful and the career agents (while dramatically better than the opportunities) have some confusing and buggy missions.

    Liked by 1 person

    • And I, likewise, agree with what you said. Sure, the NPE has flaws and can be improved. My point with that comment was just to lend credence to a bit of what Sion said by joining in a bit of the condemnation of the Eve community. I’ve been pretty vocal about it before, ironically, often when raging against the Goons. The Jump Freighter scams are not good for the NPE. So yeah, your concerns about the NPE are real. We all know about them. I wasn’t trying to make the post about the NPE. I was just saying that the player base can be toxic, from our environment for the newbros, to the rank and uncritical cynicism concerning game design, to pissing on Jeff Edwards.

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  3. With Sion posting about how bad our community is taking the Fountain War book and its not so successful kickstarter campaign misses some points he or other management people made wrong. All of this is my personal opinion, I may have missed some points and a lot of reactions elsewhere in the meta.

    First off, I surely don’t project any hate at anyone. No hate for goons and surely not for Jeff Edwards for making us this offer. I don’t know the books of J. E. therefore I had to judge whether to back that kickstarter on the information at hand. And that initial information was so much filled with mittanis ego that it was hard to think about a good story springing of. JE didn’t know what or where he was getting into, but Mittani and Sion knew this place for a decade. They should have known that too much goon presence would harm the credibility of an unbiased interesting eve story.
    With Mittani pushing himself forward to sign the book you purchased might be nice for an “oh great Mittani be my god” follower but for the average book buyer this is a sign for “this is Mittens story, he signed it”.

    That mittani media started this campaign is good, but they did poor management to present this effort as an independent product not a propaganda. Maybe someone remembers the “true stories” voting and who won it? Goons are famous for being able to push their stories to success. Promoting a product that is not a goon story needs extra work because goons are what they are so everyone expect them to push their story. The call form Jeff Edwards for reports from other parties on this war came far too late. This should have been done months before even the kickstarter launched.

    Hopefully JE doesn’t turns his back on eve for one setback. There are plenty of opportunities for writing good stories. But the eve community is known for not being the easiest one. Once you get to the heart of it, it pays off the effort.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Alright. I’ll give you a point for criticism of approach to marketing and pitch. I can’t say I’ll agree with every point. I’ll also say I’m probably not knowledgeable enough about every point you made to respond intelligently.

      I will stand by my points, though, that the reaction is a bit absurdist, and that the player base could man up in the realm of criticisms and tone down a bit on the douchebagness. Also, as one who wants to see the book happen, I do stand behind my hope that the success or failure of the kickstarter does not become a matter of the hysterical cynicism of Eve drama.

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  4. Now on to the peripheral matters of the Cloud Ring Campaign and the Viceroyalty issue. Frankly, while I retain my Grr Goon t-shirt, if you want to talk about a cosmic cancerous turd floating through New Eden, you need to read up on the PanFam…. At least NC. gave us the courtesy of obviously sucking. For some reason, people still believe Pandemic Legion when they say they didn’t want that sov anyway. I hope they get a kick out of not docking up their Titans when they can’t hang on to an XL Citadel (CCPLEEZ get rid of supercap logoffski! You’re our only hope!). So the Imps are doing us a favor by getting rid of the Pandemic Family Farce that they can stand up and fight when there is an enemy. Same goes for the Viceroyalty thing. … The Viceroyalty thing is another way of saying, “if you’re scared, say you’re scared!” Basically, the Imps need to create content just like everybody else. Gevlon reminds us every day about how they sit in Deklein and rat. So, if there’s any truth to what’s been put out, it looks like the Goons are forcing content by being the same assholes they’ve been for decades, and consistently with their Nazi role-play motif. Nothing more. And the result will be content, or the illusion of the galactic south will be shattered.

    Is this… I don’t know… perhaps from a different article entirely?

    I mean, seriously? You make a series of cogent, if not personally convincing arguments, and then dump a massive rant just before the end. It robs you of a lot of credibility, and your argument of meaning.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Naw, the rant at the end is kind of consistent for me, though you wouldn’t really pick up on it unless you read my stuff, and I’m not really a popular blogger, so it’s easy to miss. The blog post is saying a few things. Seraph and Kirith wrote up more or less the standard reaction that’s been going around in the wake of the kickstarter. I think Seraph wrote a pretty solid article, while I think Kirith says more or less the same thing but is a bit ranty and less circumspect and thorough. However, one of the points I was making was that this reaction kind of plays into what the Goons would like – Sion can call up Jeff and say, “see, it’s just Goon hate. No worries.” Beyond this, I personally would like to see a book come out somehow. Not really sure if Kirith or Seraph do, and so along with being a bit Grr Goon and saying the criticism from the community actually helps the Goons so cut it out, I flavor it with a little genuine understanding for where Sion is coming from out of my own personal desire to keep the whole kickstarter thing a bit rational and possibly help the book actually come out somehow, drama or no. My method for sticking up a bit for Sion is to do what I do best. For a long time I’ve been something of a flag bearer for CCP as a good company taking the game in good directions despite the constant whining from players. For a long time I defended Brave from the incessant heckling from EVERYWHERE in the cynical old boy community that was really trying to wreck Brave to poach members. A number of my older posts were about ship balancing and game evolution, the kind of stuff that you’d find in the features and ideas section of the Eve forums, where I used to post before I started blogging. I would regularly mention that CCP has good ideas but the players are just too crusty to play the better game CCP has in mind. Basically, I am my own kind of cynic. Instead of whining at CCP, though, I regularly and commonly dump on Eve players. Particularly Pandemic Legion in my later blogging career, but historically the Goons when I was a poster on the Eve forums. I also shit on EN24 hard and heavy when they were slanting everything against my Braves in favor of PL. The rant at the end was basically a kind of a ‘return to Jan’ by moving from the ‘attacking Jeff is shitty,’ and ‘attacking the Goons makes them stronger’ to a general tying things together in my standard style. Including the bit about the Viceroy thing is in answer to speculations that it is a stunt reacting to the kickstarter difficulties, an assumption that I contradict by saying that it’s not a particular ploy of any kind, but just Goons being Goons by picking on the PanFam, who desperately need to be picked on because they are the frauds I have been calling them since the beginning of the year, and the Viceroy thing, if it’s anything at all, is just them generating content and tearing into the galactic south that pretty much needs to be torn into anyway. So the rant about Cloud Ring and the Viceroy thing, and insults of Pandemic Legion, were just me tying my earlier points together by downplaying some of the Eve drama and finishing my opening points that the stuff against Jeff and the kickstarter is kind of shitty with an ending that confirms that Eve players are just kind of shitty. The Goons are just being dicks as usual, tearing into the PL frauds, potentially tearing into the collapsed areas with their Viceroy thing. Really the whole post of mine is a rant. Even going so far as to be critical of friends of mine that are fellow writers. I can get a bit inflammatory if you read my stuff. It gets pointedly clear in the very last paragraph where I tell the Eve player base to just stop being dumb stupid shitheads. The whole post was inflammatory in my eyes, though I do try to make actual reasonable and cogent points along the way. I am glad that you saw those. I try to be humble and realistic in understanding that I am not a big time blogger. I don’t have a fanbase. I’ve had one or two viral posts that have been talked about in the community. But I fully understand you not being familiar with my style. I do make some good points, but I am very inflammatory and very critical of a lot of pillars of Eve. Check out my posts like eveshitpost24.com or Les Legions or Sad Sensationalism. You’ll see how I come up with some cool stuff but I’m a bit of a maverick and a nut and I am not a stranger to rhetorical flair.

      But anyway, I’m glad you did see some good stuff in my ideas. I do hope you don’t discount me on account of my rant flair. It’s just part of my style. If you want really concise and balanced critiques, Seraph is your guy, or the Nosey Gamer. I’m not as off the charts frenzied as Gevlon, but like him I’m a kind of impassioned guy with a history of mocking the big wigs among the players.

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  5. And here we go again.

    Many points here.

    1) “The book actually does represent a new approach to generating Eve lore. CCP has not with any book attempted to bring player actions into the mythology.” Wuut? There is a whole book with Dark Horses about it. https://www.darkhorse.com/Books/24-073/EVE-True-Stories-HC

    2) defending Jeff? Well there was nearly no attack to jeff. At most there was attack on the draft he released. And for good reasons. they were utterly bad.

    3) What about… Not answering to insults with insults? the tone Sion used can mean two things. Or he have lost all hope and is just spitting on Eve players. Or he is choosing that position because it’s the only one he can take to try to be seen as a white knight. In the end the problem stay… The community is not interested about a fiction about that war.

    4) And maybe trying to understand that noone is interested by hearing about an useless war between “autism” and “shitlord”. I mean… Let’s be honest… This fixation on war is nice and all, but that is not the story we like about Eve. That is a think to look at as an historian. For stories, we want it to be personal. To be a story about people. Not about a war.

    BTW I wonder if CFC changed name to try to bring that book closer to Dune. If yes… Well they should reread Dune. Because Dune is not about war. It’s about society and power. And how societies react to it.

    Oh and… No. Whatever they think Jeff is not an amazingly good writer. He is ok and produce things that are readable. If you don’t want something too deep. And that’s it.

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